Comments on: Great Doctor Who Fan Myth #2

By: Dave Hingley

Dave Hingley — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:14:45 +0000

your argument the difference between the cybemen in the tenth planet and the moon base is not a redesign as such as the basic design therefore, according to your argument, there are only cosmetic changes between the cybermen of the tenth planet and the moonbase. yet this is not the case as the cybermen went from having 5 fingers to 3 i think if i where to lose 2 fingers on each hand i would not call it a coemetic change. I have never heard other doctor who fans say that the cybermen have changed each time they have appeared on screen. the cybermen as a whole seem to change and adapt, presumably as new technology becomes availiable to them or as they own organs fail.

i think what we can say is there are elements of the cyberman design that have been consistent- the handlebars, the use of silver, the round circular eyes, the use of logic and these elements have had cosmetic redesigns ( the handlebars are black for cybercontrollers) the eyes now light up in NSCs as opposed to EarthShock cybermen. In many ways the article skims over the ancient greek concept of the Form:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Forms
by which an ideal could be used to describe the perfect embodiment of a Form – in the case of the cyberman then the handlebars would be the prefect way to describe the ideal of the Form.

By: Simon Watkins

Simon Watkins — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:56:57 +0000

Right, now, let’s get this straight.

By “silhouette” you mean that their shadows are the only thing that were the vaguely the same shape(ish)?

By “cosmetic” you mean what’s generally considered to be the look and design, yes? I might argue that the humanoid Daleks were still actually Daleks, but their different look was merely cosmetic, but wouldn’t seriously try to peddle the myth that the design was the same(!)

In other words they might have changed tonnes more than any other returning monster, and still satisfied your “silhouette” and “cosmetic” criteria.
The changes in the design of Daleks, Sea Devils, Silurians, Sontarans, Autons, Yeti, and any other returning monster (save a couple e.g. Ice Warriors, Sil and Alpha Centauri) haven’t been dismissed as insignificant by fans, yet none of these changes were anything like as drastic at those which befell the Cybermen between between 1967 and 2006.
Why not just admit they changed? It’s not like it matters.
What’s the point in holding onto this delusional nonsense which you cannot seriously expect anyone to swallow?

By: John Campbell Rees

John Campbell Rees — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:40:18 +0000

Like I said in the article, the changes between The Invasion and Silver Nemesis were cosmetic. The silhouette of the Cybermen did not change between 1967 and 2006.

By: Simon Watkins

Simon Watkins — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:52:16 +0000

“…two changes in the 1960’s and then no change until 2006″
It’s one thing to say “same basic design”, an argument, incidentally, you could conceivably put forward for the whole cybermen basic design anyway.
Seriously though, John, if you think no changes at all between Invasion and Earthshock, you’re quite frankly losing the plot.